Documents on Mexican Politics.

WORLD PRESS FREEDOM


APRIL 6, 1996



ANNCR:           ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES
                 POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES.

                 THIS WEEK, "WORLD PRESS FREEDOM."  HERE IS YOUR
                 HOST, ROBERT REILLY.

HOST:            HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE.


                 A FREE PRESS IS A CORNERSTONE OF DEMOCRACY.  IT
                 IS ESSENTIAL FOR HOLDING GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE.
                 AND CITIZENS HAVE THE RIGHT TO HEAR THE TRUTH
                 ABOUT THEIR OWN COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.  WITH THE
                 DEMISE OF SOVIET COMMUNISM, RUSSIA AND A NUMBER
                 OF COUNTRIES IN EASTERN EUROPE ARE ATTEMPTING TO
                 ESTABLISH A FREE PRESS FOR THE FIRST TIME.  BUT
                 THE SURVIVING COMMUNIST REGIMES -- AMONG THEM,
                 CHINA, CUBA AND NORTH KOREA -- CONTINUE TO
                 SUPPRESS FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND OF THE PRESS.
                 AND MANY AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS IN ASIA,
                 AFRICA AND THE MIDDLE EAST SEEK TO DO THE SAME.

                 JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS PRESS FREEDOM AROUND
                 THE WORLD ARE THREE EXPERTS.  GEOFFREY COWAN IS
                 THE DIRECTOR OF THE VOICE OF AMERICA.  LEONARD
                 SUSSMAN IS SENIOR SCHOLAR FOR INTERNATIONAL
                 COMMUNICATIONS AT FREEDOM HOUSE.  AND LISA ELLIS
                 IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMS
                 FOR FREEDOM FORUM, AN EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION
                 DEDICATED TO FREE SPEECH.  WELCOME TO THE
                 PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

                 MR. COWAN, AS PART OF THE VOICE OF AMERICA'S
                 FIFTY-FOURTH ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATIONS, YOU HELD
                 A CONFERENCE EXAMINING PRESS FREEDOM AROUND THE
                 WORLD.  WHAT DID YOU FIND?

COWAN:           WELL, IN FACT, MR. SUSSMAN WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE
                 WHO WERE PART OF THAT SESSION.  WE ACTUALLY
                 SPENT THE ENTIRE WEEK, WHICH WAS A CELEBRATION
                 OF OUR FIFTY-FOURTH ANNIVERSARY, AS YOU SAY,
                 TALKING ABOUT PRESS FREEDOM AROUND THE WORLD.
                 AND EVERY ONE OF OUR FORTY-SEVEN LANGUAGE
                 SERVICES TALKED ABOUT THE STATUS OF PRESS
                 FREEDOM IN THE COUNTRIES THAT IT SERVES.  AND OF
                 COURSE, WHAT YOU DO FIND IN THE WORLD TODAY IS,
                 ON THE ONE HAND, WE'RE MOVING TOWARD DEMOCRACIES
                 IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD AND MANY PEOPLE ARE
                 STRUGGLING FOR A FREE PRESS.  BUT WE HAVE MANY,
                 MANY PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD TODAY, NOT JUST
                 CENSORSHIP AS IT USED TO EXIST -- THE GOVERNMENT
                 COMING IN AND CLOSING DOWN NEWSPAPERS, SAYING
                 YOU CAN'T PRINT SOMETHING -- BUT ALSO REPORTERS
                 BEING KILLED, WHICH IS HAPPENING IN MANY PARTS
                 OF THE WORLD, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, ALGERIA --
                 AND SOME V-O-A REPORTERS AND STRINGERS HAVE BEEN
                 IN THAT SITUATION -- BUT ALSO LIBEL LAWS, WHICH
                 ARE USED IN COUNTRIES LIKE MALAYSIA TO THREATEN
                 AN INDEPENDENT AND FREE PRESS.  SO WE EXPLORED
                 ALL OF THOSE  AND THEIR IMPLICATIONS FOR FREEDOM
                 OF THE PRESS AROUND THE WORLD AND I THINK WE
                 FOUND THAT WE ALL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

HOST:            MR. SUSSMAN, LET ME ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION
                 WITH THIS PARTICULAR IDEA.  HAS THE SEEMING
                 TRIUMPH OF DEMOCRACY IN SO MANY PLACES IN THE
                 WORLD -- THE FORMER SOVIET UNION, THE ADVANCE OF
                 DEMOCRACY IN LATIN AMERICA -- BEEN ACCOMPANIED
                 BY A CONCURRENT INCREASE IN PRESS FREEDOM AND
                 FREEDOM OF SPEECH?

SUSSMAN:         WELL, IT HAS TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.  I THINK THE
                 PROBLEM ALWAYS WITH SOCIETIES THAT OPEN UP IS
                 THAT THEY OPEN AND THEN YOU FIND A GREAT DEAL OF
                 DIVISIVENESS AS A CONSEQUENCE.  THEIR PRIOR LIFE
                 WAS AUTHORITARIAN OR TOTALITARIAN.  SUDDENLY,
                 PEOPLE FEEL THAT THEY CAN MOVE ABOUT MORE
                 FREELY.  AND THIS TENDS TO FRIGHTEN SOME
                 GOVERNMENTS, EVEN THOSE GOVERNMENTS THAT SAY
                 THEY'RE COMMITTED TO A MORE OPEN SOCIETY, TO A
                 MARKET ECONOMY, FOR EXAMPLE.  AND SO THEY'RE
                 GOING TO BEGIN TO CLAMP DOWN IN VARIOUS WAYS,
                 AND SOMETIMES VERY SOPHISTICATED WAYS:
                 ECONOMICALLY, PRESSURES ON JOURNALISTS,
                 THREATENING THEM WITH THEIR CAREERS, THREATENING
                 THEM WITH THEIR LIVES IN SOME RESPECTS.  SOME
                 SIXTY JOURNALISTS WERE KILLED LAST YEAR AROUND
                 THE WORLD AND THIS IS THE ULTIMATE CENSORSHIP,
                 OF COURSE, IS THE MURDER OF A JOURNALIST.  AND
                 IT TENDS TO COOL EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON FOR
                 AWHILE WITHIN THAT SOCIETY.  THAT AND ALL THE
                 HARASSMENTS THAT GO ON IN SO MANY COUNTRIES.  AT
                 ONE POINT, SEVERAL YEARS AGO, I TRIED TO LIST
                 THE VARIETY OF HARASSMENTS: SOME EIGHTY-TWO
                 DIFFERENT WAYS THAT GOVERNMENTS USE TO SIT ON
                 THEIR JOURNALISTS, OR THREATEN THEM, OR IN OTHER
                 WAYS CONTROL THE CONTENT, WHICH IS REALLY WHAT
                 THIS ALL AMOUNTS TO.  THE CENSORSHIP OR THE MORE
                 SOPHISTICATED USES OF IT IS ESSENTIALLY FOR THE
                 PURPOSE OF KEEPING FROM THEIR OWN PEOPLE IDEAS
                 WHICH THEY THINK MAY SOMEHOW HURT THE RULING
                 GROUPS IF THESE IDEAS BECAME MUCH MORE VIABLE,
                 MUCH MORE COMMON.

HOST:            MS. ELLIS, LET ME ASK YOU: DO YOU SEE AN OVERALL
                 IMPROVEMENT IN THE SITUATION AS OPPOSED TO TEN
                 YEARS AGO, OR IS IT A PRETTY MUDDY, MIXED
                 PICTURE?

ELLIS:           I THINK THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT INFORMATION
                 TECHNOLOGY HAS ALLOWED US TO TRACK AND MONITOR
                 THE THREATS TO PRESS FREEDOM WORLDWIDE MORE THAN
                 BEFORE.  FROM FARTHER AWAY WE GET INFORMATION
                 MORE QUICKLY.  I THINK THE BAD NEWS IS THAT THE
                 STORY REALLY IS NOT IMPROVING MUCH, ESPECIALLY
                 THIS YEAR.  AND THE NUMBER OF JOURNALISTS WHO'VE
                 BEEN KILLED.  AND THE THREATS REALLY ARE
                 POLITICAL, ECONOMIC, CERTAINLY PHYSICAL.  I
                 THINK THAT THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT CAN BE DONE BY
                 THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO SUPPORT
                 JOURNALISTS AROUND THE WORLD.

HOST:            LIKE WHAT?

ELLIS:           WELL, AT THE FREEDOM FORUM, THIS YEAR'S THEME
                 HAPPENS TO BE "JOURNALISTS IN PERIL AND MEDIA
                 UNDER SIEGE".  AND, WE'RE HOSTING A VARIETY OF
                 PRESS OR MEDIA FORUMS WORLDWIDE.  WE JUST
                 FINISHED ONE IN HONG KONG.  WE WANT TO DO ONE
                 VERY SOON IN LONDON.  AND WE'RE PUTTING THE
                 SPOTLIGHT ON THOSE REGIONS; PARTICULAR COUNTRIES
                 WHERE THERE ARE ABUSES OF PRESS FREEDOM.

HOST:            SO, YOU'RE SAYING IN A WAY, THAT THE ANSWER TO
                 PRESS SUPPRESSION IS MORE PRESS.

ELLIS:           I THINK: SHINE THE SPOTLIGHT ON THEM.

HOST:            AND WHICH COUNTRIES ARE YOU GOING TO POINT TO?

ELLIS:           CERTAINLY IN EUROPE, THE HOT SPOTS WOULD BE
                 FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, BOSNIA AND THOSE ARE THE
                 OBVIOUS ONES.  CHECHNYA -- THE NUMBER OF
                 JOURNALISTS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED TRYING TO GET
                 THE STORY THERE.  RUSSIA -- THE ORGANIZED OR NOT
                 SO ORGANIZED MAFIA, ORGANIZED CRIME, WELL, I
                 THINK, DIRECTLY RESULTS IN THE ASSASSINATIONS OF
                 JOURNALISTS, AND MOST RECENTLY A
                 PHOTO-JOURNALIST.  NORTHERN IRELAND CERTAINLY IS
                 WORTH LOOKING AT.  WORLDWIDE.  I COULD GO ON.

HOST:            LET ME ASK YOU A LITTLE MORE THEORETICAL
                 QUESTION ABOUT PRESS FREEDOM AS AN ABSOLUTE
                 RIGHT, PARTICULARLY IN COUNTRIES WHICH ARE IN
                 TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY.  A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE:
                 RUSSIA, WHICH IS FACING A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
                 THIS JUNE.  IT LOOKS VERY LIKELY AS IF IT MAY BE
                 A CHOICE BETWEEN PRESIDENT YELTSIN AND A
                 RESURGENT COMMUNIST PARTY.  NOW, IF A FREE PRESS
                 ATTACKS PRESIDENT YELTSIN WITH THE EFFECT OF
                 VICTORY FOR THE COMMUNISTS, WHO THEN MAY VERY
                 WELL RESTRICT THAT FREE PRESS, WHAT IS THEIR
                 RESPONSIBILITY IN THAT SITUATION?

COWAN:           WELL, I THINK THIS DILEMMA ALSO EXTENDS TO THE
                 QUESTION OF DEMOCRACY.  DO WE BELIEVE IN
                 DEMOCRACY IF THE RESULTS ARE ONES THAT WE DON'T
                 LIKE IN TERMS OF WHO COMES TO POWER?  AND I
                 THINK THE UNITED STATES POSITION IS, YES.  WE DO
                 BELIEVE DEMOCRACY IS A GOOD THING IN ITSELF EVEN
                 IF SOMETIMES IT LEADS TO GOVERNMENTS THAT WE
                 MIGHT NOT CONSIDER TO BE ALLIES.  AND THE SAME
                 THING'S TRUE OF A FREE PRESS AND FREE
                 EXPRESSION.  WE'RE DEDICATED TO THOSE IDEALS.
                 WHETHER THOSE IDEALS ARE ABSOLUTE IN EACH
                 INSTANCE IS SOMETHING, OF COURSE, THAT WE'VE
                 STRUGGLED WITH INSIDE THE UNITED STATES.  AND
                 FOR US TO SPEAK OF OTHER COUNTRIES AND SAY THAT
                 THEY SHOULD BE PERFECT, I THINK, WOULD BE TO
                 IGNORE OUR OWN HISTORY AND OUR OWN FEELINGS.
                 BUT, THIS IS A CONSTANT STRUGGLE.  THE MOST
                 INTERESTING THING, THOUGH, THAT I THINK IS
                 EMERGING IN THE WORLD TODAY, BOB -- YOU TALKED
                 ABOUT WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES OVER TIME -- IS
                 THAT THERE IS A NEW MODEL THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE
                 LOOKING AT OF DEMOCRACY AND FREE INSTITUTIONS,
                 AND THAT IS CHINA.  AND PEOPLE USED TO THINK YOU
                 HAD TO HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT CONTROLLED EVERY
                 PART OF THE SOCIETY INCLUDING THE MARKETS AND
                 ALSO WOULD CONTROL THE MEDIA AND IT WOULD
                 CONTROL POLITICS.  AND THAT THAT WAS UP AGAINST
                 THE UNITED STATES, WHICH BELIEVED IN FREE
                 INSTITUTIONS.  INSTEAD, YOU'RE FINDING A MODEL
                 IN WHICH THERE CAN BE SOMEWHAT MORE OPEN
                 ECONOMIC INSTITUTIONS BUT STILL A VERY CLOSED
                 POLITICAL AND PRESS SYSTEM.  AND UNFORTUNATELY
                 FROM AMERICA'S STANDPOINT, THAT MODEL IS HAVING
                 A LOT OF APPEAL IN THE WORLD.  BUT I THINK IT'S
                 PART OF THE CONTEST OF IDEAS THAT WE'RE ENGAGED
                 IN TODAY.

HOST:            BUT, AS WE KNOW, RECENTLY, CHINA HAS TAKEN UPON
                 ITSELF THE CENSORSHIP OF FINANCIAL INFORMATION
                 BY CHANNELING ALL BUSINESS NEWS THROUGH A STATE
                 AGENCY.,

SUSSMAN:         AND CLOSING DOWN ONE OF THE NEWSPAPERS THAT WAS
                 CONCENTRATING ON FINANCIAL NEWS, AS A MATTER OF
                 FACT, FROM SHANGHAI.  BUT, THERE'S ANOTHER WAY
                 OF ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.  THE QUESTION OF
                 WHAT A JOURNALIST SHOULD DO IN THE CASE OF
                 RUSSIA, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THERE IS THIS
                 TERRIBLE ALTERNATIVE.  SOME GOVERNMENTS ARE NOW
                 SAYING THAT THE PRESS MUST BE, QUOTE,
                 RESPONSIBLE, UNQUOTE.  AND THAT IS NOW WRITTEN
                 INTO MANY CONSTITUTIONS, MANY PRESS LAWS IN SOME
                 OF THE NEW SOCIETIES.  BUT THE QUESTION IS: WHO
                 IS TO DETERMINE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE
                 JOURNALIST?  IS IT THE JOURNALIST, OR THE
                 JOURNALIST'S SOCIETY, OR THE MANAGER OF THE
                 NEWSPAPER OR RADIO STATION, OR IS IT THE
                 GOVERNMENT?

HOST:            WELL IS THERE A CRITERION OF TRUTH AGAINST WHICH
                 RESPONSIBLE JOURNALISM CAN BE MEASURED?

SUSSMAN:         I THINK THERE IS IN TERMS OF THE INTERNAL
                 CONTROLS WITHIN JOURNALISM SHOULD PROVIDE THAT.
                 ONCE YOU ALLOW GOVERNMENT TO DO IT, THEN YOU'RE
                 BACK TO THE OLD GAME OF SIMPLY HAVING REPRESSION
                 AND SUPPRESSION.  AND YET, EVEN WESTERN EUROPE
                 AT THIS POINT, SPENT TWO YEARS NOW DISCUSSING
                 THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE JOURNALIST AND THAT
                 SHOULD BE WRITTEN INTO LAW SOMEHOW.  IT'S HARD
                 TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE WESTERN EUROPEANS CAN
                 SOMEHOW BE DISCUSSING THIS VERY ASPECT OF THE
                 FIELD, WHICH WHEN IT WAS BROUGHT UP IN UNESCO
                 FOR SO MANY YEARS, THEY REALLY OPPOSED IT WITH
                 ALL THEIR MIGHT.  AND NOW THEY'RE BACK AT THE
                 STAND, WHICH IS PICKED UP BY ASIAN COUNTRIES
                 VERY OFTEN.  THEY SAY, "YES, WHAT WE WANT IS
                 RESPONSIBLE JOURNALISM AND THE GOVERNMENT CAN
                 DETERMINE THAT.  WELL, THIS AGAIN IS SIMPLY A
                 SOFTER WAY OF COMING TO CONTROL.

HOST:            LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION, BECAUSE, MS. ELLIS,
                 YOU'VE MENTIONED THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES THAT MAKE
                 IT EASIER TO OVERCOME SOME OF THESE BARRIERS.
                 ARE THE ATTEMPTS BY CHINA TO CENSOR INFORMATION,
                 TO JAM RADIOS, THE ATTEMPTS BY IRAN OF
                 DESTROYING SATELLITE DISHES ON PEOPLE'S HOMES,
                 ULTIMATELY FUTILE BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE FAXES,
                 INTERNETS, INTERNATIONAL RADIO, ET CETERA?

ELLIS:           ABSOLUTELY.  I MEAN, THE END OF THE COLD WAR IS
                 A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT.  I MEAN, A FRIEND OF
                 MINE CALLS IT "WORLD WAR THREE, WITHOUT
                 BULLETS".  IT WAS INFORMATION LEAPING OVER THE
                 WALLS AND EVENTUALLY THE BERLIN WALL CRUMBLING,
                 AND IT WAS IN LARGE MEASURE DUE TO VCRS AND
                 FOREIGN RADIO BROADCASTS, AS WELL AS COMPUTERS
                 AND DATABASES AND ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT
                 THEY COULD NOT KEEP OUT.  THE BORDERS SUDDENLY
                 WERE RIDDLED WITH HOLES, AND I THINK THAT IT'S
                 GOING TO BE DIFFICULT ALSO FOR THE CHINESE.  I
                 THINK BACK TO THIS VIEW OF ASIAN VALUES --
                 SOMEHOW BALANCING ECONOMIC PROSPERITY WITH THE
                 RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS AND INDIVIDUAL LIBERTIES
                 --  IT'S SO VERY CONVENIENT FOR SOME GOVERNMENTS
                 IN ASIA TO USE AS REASONS FOR CENSORSHIP OR FOR
                 ABUSING PRESS FREEDOM.  AND, CERTAINLY, THE
                 FREEDOM FORUM'S MEDIA FORUM IN HONG KONG BROUGHT
                 THAT TO LIGHT.  THERE WERE INDONESIAN
                 PARTICIPANTS WHO SAID THAT THEY JUST DIDN'T BUY
                 THIS "ASIAN VALUES."  IT WAS CONVENIENT FOR THE
                 GOVERNMENT BUT NOT FOR THOSE INDEPENDENT
                 JOURNALISTS.

HOST:            IT WOULD SEEM AS LONG AS COUNTRIES LIKE
                 INDONESIA OR OTHERS WHERE YOU DO FIND OCCASIONS
                 OF ATTEMPTS TO SUPPRESS THE PRESS.  AS LONG AS
                 THEY DON'T SHUT THEMSELVES OFF FROM EXTERNAL
                 MEDIA, THERE IS A TREMENDOUS IMPETUS FOR THEM TO
                 OBSERVE WHAT WE WOULD RECOGNIZE AS FAIR
                 JOURNALISTIC PRACTICES IN THE WEST.  DO YOU FIND
                 THAT TO BE THE CASE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AT THE
                 VOICE OF AMERICA?

COWAN:           YES, I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS THE VOICE OF
                 AMERICA AND THE BBC WORLD SERVICE AND OTHERS ARE
                 SO IMPORTANT IN THE WORLD -- AND I THINK THE
                 INTERNET WILL FUNCTION IN SOME WAYS IN THE SAME
                 RESPECT -- IS THAT YOU WANT A PLURALITY, A
                 DIVERSITY OF VOICES.  MOST AMERICANS WHO ARE
                 INTERESTED IN CURRENT AFFAIRS PROBABLY LISTEN TO
                 THREE OR FOUR RADIO STATIONS, A COUPLE OF
                 TELEVISION STATIONS AND READ FOUR OR FIVE
                 NEWSPAPERS AND NEWSMAGAZINES EVERY WEEK.  NOT
                 BECAUSE ANY ONE HAS THE TRUTH BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE
                 SEEKING A DIVERSITY OF INFORMATION FOR YOURSELF.
                 I THINK WHAT THE VOICE OF AMERICA AND OTHER
                 INTERNATIONAL BROADCASTERS PROVIDE IS THE
                 OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT DIVERSITY.  EACH ONE OF US
                 THINKS, IN OUR CASE, WE TRY TO BE BALANCED AND
                 ACCURATE.  BUT, AT THE VERY LEAST, WE'RE
                 CREATING A SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE INSIDE OF
                 COUNTRIES LIKE THOSE THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING --
                 FOR EXAMPLE, IN CHINA -- WHERE THE PEOPLE WILL
                 KNOW THE INFORMATION FROM US AND WHERE THEIR OWN
                 LOCAL MEDIA WILL FIND IT MORE DIFFICULT TO KEEP
                 THAT INFORMATION FROM THEM.

HOST:            LET ME ASK YOU: WHERE ARE YOU JAMMED TODAY?

COWAN:           WELL, THE ONLY TWO COUNTRIES THAT CURRENTLY JAM
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT BROADCASTS TODAY DIRECTLY ARE
                 CHINA -- WE ALSO BELIEVE WE ARE BEING JAMMED IN
                 BURMA, I SHOULD ADD THAT -- AND THEN THE
                 BROADCASTS OF RADIO AND TELEVISION MARTI ARE
                 JAMMED IN CUBA.  THERE ARE MANY OTHER COUNTRIES
                 IN WHICH THERE IS GREAT RESISTANCE, AND WHERE
                 PEOPLE CAN GET IN A LOT OF TROUBLE, OR EVEN BE
                 SENT TO JAIL, FOR LISTENING TO THE VOICE OF
                 AMERICA.  BUT I THINK THE ONLY PLACE WHERE WE
                 ARE FORMALLY JAMMED ARE CHINA, MAYBE BURMA, AND
                 CUBA.

ELLIS:           ACCESS TO INFORMATION ISN'T THAT SIMPLE EITHER,
                 IN PLACES WHERE THERE ARE NO INDEPENDENT NEWS
                 AGENCIES, AND IT COSTS MONEY TO START THEM AND
                 TRAIN THEM.  THAT'S WHERE THE U.S. HAS TRIED TO
                 PLAY A ROLE AS BEST THAT THEY CAN.  BUT IN
                 INDONESIA, CERTAIN COLLEAGUES -- JOURNALISTS --
                 HAVE INFORMED ME THAT THE TIME MAGAZINES THAT
                 THEY GET HAVE THE ARTICLES CUT OUT OF THEM.  SO,
                 THAT IS A VERY CRITICAL PROBLEM AND I THINK A
                 ROLE FOR INTERNATIONAL RADIOS.  THAT'S ONE THING
                 YOU CAN'T CUT STORIES OUT OF.

COWAN:           NO, AND IN FACT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHINA.
                 EVEN THOUGH WE'RE JAMMED THERE, WE COME IN ON SO
                 MANY DIFFERENT FREQUENCIES AT THE SAME TIME THAT
                 WE HAVE A HUGE LISTENERSHIP IN CHINA.  THERE'S A
                 RECENT STUDY BY A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
                 BEIJING WHO SAYS THAT MORE THAN SEVENTY PERCENT
                 OF THE COLLEGE STUDENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY
                 COMMUNITY LISTENS TO THE VOICE OF AMERICA ON A
                 REGULAR BASIS.  AND WE CLEARLY HAVE A HUGE
                 LISTENERSHIP IN THAT COUNTRY, DESPITE THE
                 JAMMING FOR THE REASONS THAT LISA MENTIONED.

SUSSMAN:         AS THE PRICE OF SATELLITE DISHES COMES DOWN
                 MARKEDLY TOO, THAT OPENS UP A WHOLE NEW
                 POSSIBILITY, IT SEEMS TO ME.  AND IN MANY
                 PLACES, IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.  THROUGH THE
                 MIDDLE EAST THERE ARE LOTS OF SATELLITE
                 RECEIVERS NOW ALTHOUGH THEY'RE NOT OFFICIALLY
                 ENCOURAGED.  AND IRAN HAS MANY MORE THAN ANYBODY
                 WILL ADMIT, MOSTLY ILLEGAL.  AS YOU INDICATED
                 EARLIER, SOMETIMES PEOPLE'S HOMES ARE INVADED TO
                 KILL THESE DISHES.  BUT THERE'S PROBABLY OVER A
                 HUNDRED THOUSAND OF THEM THERE.

COWAN:           AND THEY'RE BECOMING SMALLER AND SMALLER.

SUSSMAN:         SMALLER AND SMALL SO THEY CAN'T BE VISIBLE.

HOST:            EASIER TO DISGUISE.

SUSSMAN:         EASIER TO DISGUISE AND CHEAPER.

HOST:            IN IRAN, OF COURSE, WE HAVE AN INSTANCE WHERE,
                 NOT ONLY ARE THEY TRYING TO BAN INCOMING MEDIA
                 OR JAM IT, THEY HAVE A FATWAH, A DEATH THREAT,
                 ON A WRITER, A JOURNALIST, SALMAN RUSHDIE, WHICH
                 HAS YET TO BE WITHDRAWN.  AND A DEATH SENTENCE
                 THAT THEY ARE ENCOURAGING.  AND OF COURSE, THEY
                 ENGAGE IN THEIR OWN EXTERNAL BROADCASTING, DON'T
                 THEY?

COWAN:           YES, ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS -- WHICH WE
                 IN THE WEST SOMETIMES FORGET -- IS HOW
                 AGGRESSIVE THE INTERNATIONAL, LITERALLY,
                 PROPAGANDA MACHINES OF OTHER COUNTRIES ARE.  AND
                 IN THE CASE OF IRAN, THEY BROADCAST IN TWICE AS
                 MANY LANGUAGES AS THE VOICE OF AMERICA TO THAT
                 REGION.  TWICE AS MANY LANGUAGES, TWICE AS MANY
                 HOURS, OVER MORE POWERFUL TRANSMITTERS.  AND THE
                 LARGEST INTERNATIONAL BROADCASTER TODAY IN THE
                 WORLD IS NOT THE BBC OR THE UNITED STATES.  IT'S
                 THE CHINESE.  SO, THERE ARE OTHER VERY POWERFUL
                 VOICES OUT THERE.  WHAT THOSE VOICES TRY TO DO,
                 IN MY OPINION, IS OFTEN TO PRESENT ONE POINT OF
                 VIEW.  WHAT THE VOICE OF AMERICAN HAS A LEGAL
                 OBLIGATION TO DO IS TO PRESENT A BALANCED POINT
                 OF VIEW AND ALWAYS SEEK TO BE ACCURATE.

HOST:            WHICH IS ONE REASON FOR THE EFFECT THAT YOU HAVE
                 HAD OVER THE YEARS IN THE FORMER SOVIET UNION,
                 EASTERN EUROPE AND, INDEED, IN CHINA TODAY.

COWAN:           WELL, THAT'S RIGHT.  THE VOICE OF AMERICA WAS
                 FOUNDED FIFTY-FOUR YEARS AGO, AS YOU MENTIONED,
                 TO COMBAT NAZI PROPAGANDA DURING THE EARLY YEARS
                 OF WORLD WAR TWO AND THEN THROUGHOUT THE WAR.
                 AND FROM THE BEGINNING, THE VOICE OF AMERICA
                 KNEW THAT THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT WAS TO BE
                 ACCURATE AND TO SOMETIMES TELL THE UNPLEASANT
                 TRUTHS ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR ALLIES.  BUT
                 ULTIMATELY, THAT YOUR MOST IMPORTANT INGREDIENT
                 WOULD BE CREDIBILITY, WHICH, I THINK WE'VE BUILT
                 UP IN THE WORLD AND WHICH WE MAINTAIN.

HOST:            SO, THIS COULD PROVIDE A STANDARD IN SOME
                 COUNTRIES WHICH ARE IN TRANSITION, SUCH AS I
                 MENTIONED IN EASTERN EUROPE AND RUSSIA.  IN
                 FACT, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS ACTIVELY SUPPORTING
                 THE DEVELOPMENT OF FREE PRESS THERE AS ARE
                 VARIOUS PRIVATE-SECTOR ORGANIZATIONS SUCH AS
                 YOUR OWN.  WHAT ARE THE RESULTS IN EASTERN
                 EUROPE?  I SEE ASTOUNDING FIGURES IN ROMANIA,
                 WHICH HAS SOME THIRTY-FOUR INDEPENDENT
                 TELEVISION STATIONS AND A HUNDRED AND THREE
                 RADIO STATIONS.

ELLIS:           CERTAINLY.  I THINK THAT ONE COULD SAY THAT
                 THERE'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PROGRESS IN
                 CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE.  IF YOU LOOK AT THE
                 NUMBER OF NEW PUBLICATIONS IN THE PRINT MEDIA,
                 IT'S VERY HOPEFUL, I SHOULD SAY.  BUT, IN TERMS
                 OF BROADCASTING IT'S LESS HOPEFUL.  THERE MAY BE
                 A LOT OF NEW RADIO AND TELEVISION STATIONS, BUT
                 CERTAIN LEGAL RESTRICTIONS, ANTIQUATED PRESS
                 LAW, STILL EXISTS THAT MAKE IT VERY DIFFICULT.
                 AND OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNMENTS ARE NOT WILLING OR
                 HAPPY ABOUT ALLOWING OTHER VIEWS TO BE
                 BROADCAST, SINCE MOST PEOPLE GET THEIR NEWS FROM
                 RADIO AND TELEVISION.  U.S. MEDIA ASSISTANCE, I
                 THINK, HAS BEEN, OVERALL, FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL.  I
                 THINK THAT MORE MONEY CERTAINLY COULD BE PUT
                 INTO IT THAN THERE IS CURRENTLY.  LEONARD, YOU
                 HAVE A MAP OF PRESS FREEDOM.  HAVE THINGS
                 IMPROVED IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THAT WE'VE BEEN.
                 . .

SUSSMAN:         OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, I GUESS, THERE'S BEEN
                 SOME IMPROVEMENT, BUT IT'S STILL, NOT THAT
                 ENCOURAGING.  IN FACT, OUR LAST FIGURES WHICH WE
                 DREW UP VERY RECENTLY INDICATE THAT FROM A
                 POPULATION STANDPOINT, ONLY TWENTY-TWO PERCENT
                 OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD HAVE ACCESS TO FREE
                 NEWS MEDIA.  BY COUNTRIES IT'S A LITTLE BETTER;
                 IT'S ABOUT THIRTY-FOUR PERCENT.  BUT WE'D PREFER
                 TO DEAL WITH INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE, IN OUR VIEW,
                 THAT'S REALLY THE FOCUS OF JOURNALISM.
                 TWENTY-TWO PERCENT.  IT'S A FAIRLY LOW
                 PERCENTAGE.  AND THESE ARE BY CRITERIA THAT ARE
                 FAIRLY LIBERAL.  IT'S NOT AN AMERICAN STANDARD
                 OR A WESTERN STANDARD.  IF IT'S ANYTHING IT'S
                 BASED ON THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN
                 RIGHTS, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH A HUMAN STANDARD.

HOST:            WELL, I'M AFRAID THAT WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME. BUT
                 IT SOUNDS AS IF THERE'S STILL A HUGE AUDIENCE
                 FOR THE VOICE OF AMERICA OUT THERE.  WELL, WE'D
                 LIKE TO THANK OUR GUESTS -- GEOFFREY COWAN FROM
                 THE VOICE OF AMERICA;  LEONARD SUSSMAN FROM
                 FREEDOM HOUSE; AND LISA ELLIS FROM FREEDOM FORUM
                 -- FOR JOINING ME TO DISCUSS PRESS FREEDOM
                 AROUND THE WORLD.  THIS IS ROBERT REILLY FOR ON
                 THE LINE.













04-Apr-96 4:35 PM EST (2135 UTC)

Source: Voice of America